[compristous]

To be honest I can not really see an issue with the economy. Some of us who never lived the sweet life making millions in the market have not seen this as tragically as the wall street boys have. Eventually the decline in their wealth has still been able to effect us.

However, My wife and I started a new company in the middle of this recession, and it has grown well actually. We are not rich, I may not be dumping thousands of dollars in the market yet, But it has done well considering the environment it was founded in.

The main point i can make quickly is life is what we make of it, my wife and I had very little money, both of us had been laid off, out of work, and had been scammed by a person who got us for $20,000.00, and we woke up one day and went with our gut. What puts us out from others is we didnt stop, we didnt slack off, or slow down, we worked hard and still do. The bottom line is if you want to make it and you work well as a team nothing can tear you down. My wife and I just prayed and worked, prayed and worked, and between God and our perseverance, we are succeeding.

We are struggling, but not for the reasons you would think, we do very little advertising, we made a name and it now has a very strong reputation in the community. Picking up work or new accounts is not our problem, even with very little advertising we pick up more work than we can handle. The problem we have is we are either competing with unemployment rates, or welfare checks. People will not work if they can make more more or the same amount of money sitting on their butts collecting either of these means of income. And they blatantly tell you that. Unemployment is for people who have worked and lost their job due to uncontrollable conditions, and is available until you can find work.These lazy people who can find work but wont are only screwing us all. Yes it would be great if everyone could do that, and i am sure you worked hard to get that unemployment, but firstly you didnt pay for it your employer did, number 2 you are only hurting us all by sitting and reaping and not getting readily available work. Your ignorance is costing your state and governments monthly to pay you. If 500 people per state make $1000.00 a month on unemployment your state is paying 6 million dollars a year for people to just sit on their but because they know they can, ask yourself what could your state or your community do with an extra 6 million dollars a year?

With that being said I would have to say our government is only part to blame for our economy, just because you dont want to do the task at hand does not mean there is not work available to you, not wanting to work and not being able to work are 2 different things. And until we as a society realize the effects of our own decisions and that they impact more than just us. Until these come to face, things will not get better.

The more of our states money we spend, the less their is for the things we need. Yes in a Walgreens world our unemployment should sustain itself, but we all know it doesn't, so in order to cover the costs, our governments have to pull this money from somewhere else to cover it for a while. And it just keeps getting worse and worse. Program after program takes from one another until eventually there is no money for any of the programs set up to help us continue in hard times. So remember that next time you hear or say "I aint gonna do that, I can make more sittin at home collecting unemployment, or collecting welfare". This kind of attitude effects us now and you later no matter what, cause while you are sitting on your butt at home collecting, you and I know it will eventually run out, and if you think it's hard now getting a job, imagine what happens when the spots open now are filled and there really is nothing left for you after your lazy vacation.

Government spending starts with us, unemployment, welfare, programs like this are also government spending, I constantly see where everyone relates government spending to only our government officials, well what about you? What can you do about this and other forms of government spending that the officials have nothing to do with except writing that check? When you say they should cut government spending, how would you like it if they started with yours first. 6 million dollars a state would be $300,000,000.00 and that is just for unemployment this does not include the Welfare checks our government writes every month. Those are only 2 forms of government spending we as a people have a way to control.

What are your views on this?

[Thaklaar]

Here's my take, and I may be way off as I'm not familiar with the details of your situation. You've got folks coming in looking for work, but the wage you're offering is lower than what they're getting from their unemployment insurance. Now, according to Wikipedia, unemployment bennies pay ~36% of the wage they were making before being laid off. You're offering less than that. I can see why someone would be hesitant to take such a drastic cut, and would instead stay on unemployment and keep looking for work closer to their prior wage. At least until the benefits are fixing to run out. It's all well and good to talk about work ethics and the health of government budgets, but most folk are going to do whatever keeps a roof over their head and food in their kids' bellies.

I don't see a reason to get rid of welfare. Not having slums full of pissed off starving people is in all of our best interests. What strikes me as being more useful is some sane welfare reform. There's no sane reason for welfare to be set up so as getting a low-paying job results in a net decrease in household income. We need to set up the benefits so that poor people doing what we want them to do (get a job) results in them getting what they want (more income). The system we have now is the very definition of Perverse Incentive.

Railing about unemployment benefits in general is just silly. $300,000,000 sounds like a big number until you realize that's a dollar a person. I'm far from wealthy (pretty far from poor, too), but I can swing a buck pretty easy to help keep folks screwed over by corporate douchebags acting like corporate douchebags.

compristous, on 13 July 2010 - 12:01 PM, said:

To be honest I can not really see an issue with the economy. Some of us who never lived the sweet life making millions in the market have not seen this as tragically as the wall street boys have. Eventually the decline in their wealth has still been able to effect us.

However, My wife and I started a new company in the middle of this recession, and it has grown well actually. We are not rich, I may not be dumping thousands of dollars in the market yet, But it has done well considering the environment it was founded in.

The main point i can make quickly is life is what we make of it, my wife and I had very little money, both of us had been laid off, out of work, and had been scammed by a person who got us for $20,000.00, and we woke up one day and went with our gut. What puts us out from others is we didnt stop, we didnt slack off, or slow down, we worked hard and still do. The bottom line is if you want to make it and you work well as a team nothing can tear you down. My wife and I just prayed and worked, prayed and worked, and between God and our perseverance, we are succeeding.

We are struggling, but not for the reasons you would think, we do very little advertising, we made a name and it now has a very strong reputation in the community. Picking up work or new accounts is not our problem, even with very little advertising we pick up more work than we can handle. The problem we have is we are either competing with unemployment rates, or welfare checks. People will not work if they can make more more or the same amount of money sitting on their butts collecting either of these means of income. And they blatantly tell you that. Unemployment is for people who have worked and lost their job due to uncontrollable conditions, and is available until you can find work.These lazy people who can find work but wont are only screwing us all. Yes it would be great if everyone could do that, and i am sure you worked hard to get that unemployment, but firstly you didnt pay for it your employer did, number 2 you are only hurting us all by sitting and reaping and not getting readily available work. Your ignorance is costing your state and governments monthly to pay you. If 500 people per state make $1000.00 a month on unemployment your state is paying 6 million dollars a year for people to just sit on their but because they know they can, ask yourself what could your state or your community do with an extra 6 million dollars a year?

With that being said I would have to say our government is only part to blame for our economy, just because you dont want to do the task at hand does not mean there is not work available to you, not wanting to work and not being able to work are 2 different things. And until we as a society realize the effects of our own decisions and that they impact more than just us. Until these come to face, things will not get better.

The more of our states money we spend, the less their is for the things we need. Yes in a Walgreens world our unemployment should sustain itself, but we all know it doesn't, so in order to cover the costs, our governments have to pull this money from somewhere else to cover it for a while. And it just keeps getting worse and worse. Program after program takes from one another until eventually there is no money for any of the programs set up to help us continue in hard times. So remember that next time you hear or say "I aint gonna do that, I can make more sittin at home collecting unemployment, or collecting welfare". This kind of attitude effects us now and you later no matter what, cause while you are sitting on your butt at home collecting, you and I know it will eventually run out, and if you think it's hard now getting a job, imagine what happens when the spots open now are filled and there really is nothing left for you after your lazy vacation.

Government spending starts with us, unemployment, welfare, programs like this are also government spending, I constantly see where everyone relates government spending to only our government officials, well what about you? What can you do about this and other forms of government spending that the officials have nothing to do with except writing that check? When you say they should cut government spending, how would you like it if they started with yours first. 6 million dollars a state would be $300,000,000.00 and that is just for unemployment this does not include the Welfare checks our government writes every month. Those are only 2 forms of government spending we as a people have a way to control.

What are your views on this?

[Mr. Politics]

compristous, on 13 July 2010 - 01:01 PM, said:

To be honest I can not really see an issue with the economy. Some of us who never lived the sweet life making millions in the market have not seen this as tragically as the wall street boys have. Eventually the decline in their wealth has still been able to effect us.

However, My wife and I started a new company in the middle of this recession, and it has grown well actually. We are not rich, I may not be dumping thousands of dollars in the market yet, But it has done well considering the environment it was founded in.

Congrats!

The main point i can make quickly is life is what we make of it, my wife and I had very little money, both of us had been laid off, out of work, and had been scammed by a person who got us for $20,000.00, and we woke up one day and went with our gut. What puts us out from others is we didnt stop, we didnt slack off, or slow down, we worked hard and still do. The bottom line is if you want to make it and you work well as a team nothing can tear you down. My wife and I just prayed and worked, prayed and worked, and between God and our perseverance, we are succeeding.

That is an excellent story (except the part about your getting scammed)! I am not much of a religious person, but I believe your work paid of more than your prayers.

We are struggling, but not for the reasons you would think, we do very little advertising, we made a name and it now has a very strong reputation in the community. Picking up work or new accounts is not our problem, even with very little advertising we pick up more work than we can handle. The problem we have is we are either competing with unemployment rates, or welfare checks. People will not work if they can make more more or the same amount of money sitting on their butts collecting either of these means of income. And they blatantly tell you that. Unemployment is for people who have worked and lost their job due to uncontrollable conditions, and is available until you can find work.These lazy people who can find work but wont are only screwing us all. Yes it would be great if everyone could do that, and i am sure you worked hard to get that unemployment, but firstly you didnt pay for it your employer did, number 2 you are only hurting us all by sitting and reaping and not getting readily available work. Your ignorance is costing your state and governments monthly to pay you. If 500 people per state make $1000.00 a month on unemployment your state is paying 6 million dollars a year for people to just sit on their but because they know they can, ask yourself what could your state or your community do with an extra 6 million dollars a year?

Firstly, that is not the case with everyone. There are people who would much rather be a bum than work, but those people never came a high paying job. This recession has caused hard working people to loose their jobs. As Thaklaar eluded to: who in their right mind would want to make $300 a week-$1200 a month instead of a salary? If you have a family to raise and a mortgage to pay off you are f***ed if you decide to use welfare as your only source of income. A middle class worker would not rather have a poor man's paycheck. If you are a poor person who makes minimum wage, then abusing the welfare system seems like a better alternative to going to work. In NY the minimum wage is $7.25. Let's say I got laid off. I file for unemployment and i get nearly the same amount of money in welfare that I was getting while working. To me, my financial situation has not changed. Now, if I was a middle class worker and make a nice salary of $80,000-$150,000 and got laid off would I rather take the $300 a week or go find myself a job? I would love it if I could sit on my couch and make that same $80,000-$150,000, but it doesn't work that way. The minimum wage is not a wage you can survive on. It is just not possible. Maybe businesses should pay workers more so that people are encouraged to:


1. Motivated to keep their job.
2. Motivated to find a job if lost.
3. Not rely on welfare because even a low paying job pays more than enough compared to a welfare check.


Here is another point:


Some people just cannot find a job. I have spoken with people who are sad, discouraged, and angry at the world. It is easy to say "suck it up" but when you have a family to raise and you cannot find a job that pays the same as your old one, life gets very difficult. It is not that they didn't try to get a job, the person I have in mind (not related to me) was very vigilant but no employer was hiring.

With that being said I would have to say our government is only part to blame for our economy, just because you dont want to do the task at hand does not mean there is not work available to you, not wanting to work and not being able to work are 2 different things. And until we as a society realize the effects of our own decisions and that they impact more than just us. Until these come to face, things will not get better.

Example:
If I am a lawyer with a degree from a top school and I get laid off from the law firm due to economic reasons, why would I want to degrade my skills to be a grocery bagger in a supermarket or a bus boy? Even if I took one of those jobs on, my salary would be minimum wage and I would still default on my mortgage payments and other fancy things that I bought with my nice salary.

The more of our states money we spend, the less their is for the things we need. Yes in a Walgreens world our unemployment should sustain itself, but we all know it doesn't, so in order to cover the costs, our governments have to pull this money from somewhere else to cover it for a while. And it just keeps getting worse and worse. Program after program takes from one another until eventually there is no money for any of the programs set up to help us continue in hard times. So remember that next time you hear or say "I aint gonna do that, I can make more sittin at home collecting unemployment, or collecting welfare". This kind of attitude effects us now and you later no matter what, cause while you are sitting on your butt at home collecting, you and I know it will eventually run out, and if you think it's hard now getting a job, imagine what happens when the spots open now are filled and there really is nothing left for you after your lazy vacation.

True, but not everyone thinks this way. If people did, this country would be in a better spot. However, the point of government in my opinion is to take care of its citizens. Money should be spent to improve infrastructure, education, healthcare, etc. Unfortunately, there are a lot of abuses by citizens out there that cause our government to leak money.

Government spending starts with us, unemployment, welfare, programs like this are also government spending, I constantly see where everyone relates government spending to only our government officials, well what about you? What can you do about this and other forms of government spending that the officials have nothing to do with except writing that check? When you say they should cut government spending, how would you like it if they started with yours first. 6 million dollars a state would be $300,000,000.00 and that is just for unemployment this does not include the Welfare checks our government writes every month. Those are only 2 forms of government spending we as a people have a way to control.

What are your views on this?

There is a symbiotic relationship between people and government since we are one. Government must be able to protect and look after it's citizens through powerful government programs. Citizens need to be vigilant themselves and take interest in their government and help keep their government afloat because in return, government will repay its citizens by providing what charities and priviate industries cannot.

[compristous]

Thaklaar, on 18 July 2010 - 11:19 PM, said:

Here's my take, and I may be way off as I'm not familiar with the details of your situation. You've got folks coming in looking for work, but the wage you're offering is lower than what they're getting from their unemployment insurance. Now, according to Wikipedia, unemployment bennies pay ~36% of the wage they were making before being laid off. You're offering less than that. I can see why someone would be hesitant to take such a drastic cut, and would instead stay on unemployment and keep looking for work closer to their prior wage. At least until the benefits are fixing to run out. It's all well and good to talk about work ethics and the health of government budgets, but most folk are going to do whatever keeps a roof over their head and food in their kids' bellies.

I don't see a reason to get rid of welfare. Not having slums full of pissed off starving people is in all of our best interests. What strikes me as being more useful is some sane welfare reform. There's no sane reason for welfare to be set up so as getting a low-paying job results in a net decrease in household income. We need to set up the benefits so that poor people doing what we want them to do (get a job) results in them getting what they want (more income). The system we have now is the very definition of Perverse Incentive.

Railing about unemployment benefits in general is just silly. $300,000,000 sounds like a big number until you realize that's a dollar a person. I'm far from wealthy (pretty far from poor, too), but I can swing a buck pretty easy to help keep folks screwed over by corporate douchebags acting like corporate douchebags.

Ok This will be my first disagreement here.

Firstly it's not they are making less Per Hour, as much as less per week. We pay well over minimum wage and need a lot of people for only 2 days a week as our accounts are large on Saturdays and Sundays right now. Meaning we only have available work on Saturdays and Sundays. (this means you can still get partial unemployment, IF you do the paperwork)

I had one person who made $280.00 dollars a week on unemployment. We pay $9.00 to $12.00 dollars an hour for work depending on experience, ability, and the other normal stuff that would adjust your pay. You also get a list of work to do, you start at 8:30 AM and have until 3 P.M.to get your tasks done. If you finish at say 1:00 or 2:00 or even earlier, you are done and you still get paid till 3. I can honestly say our pay scales are one of the best in the country. Now this person would have made $180.00 a week from us. Now if they just get another job making that for another 1-2 days a week, they would now be making more than the unemployment benefit and still only working 3 to 4 days a week. HUH, its a matter of will power, and work ethics and really wanting to do what you HAVE to do to put a roof over your head and food in your childrens tummy.

Now let me farther expand by saying yes benefit pay 30 bla bla percent, However is it my fault if you made 100,000 on wallstreet last year and your boss lost his ass thus in turn lost the money to fill your position, NOPE. Is it my fault you lost your ass in the mortgage market, NOPE. Is it my fault the Mortgage market crashed thus making the housing prices drop so that 7 percent commission check got smaller and smaller, NOPE. This is where I say WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD, where people do much more than push buttons and make phone calls to make a living. You work in the real world and you work hard. You don't sit on your ass collecting from our government and make excuses why it's the right thing to do, all the while complaining there is no work out there.

Bottom line being, your unemployment benefits are available to you only until readily available work is there for you. Meaning you can't say "I can make more on unemployment" even if you want to, because the terms of your unemployment do not allow you to pick and choose what work you do, It specifically states your benefits are available to you only until work is readily available to you. PERIOD, so it doesn't matter if you like the job or that pay or not, turning down work is forbidden, and you could lose all your benefit. I turn every single person in who tells me that stuff to our unemployment office. So, now they go from sitting on their ass collecting, to looking for 2 jobs anyways LMAO. And you can guess what kinda call I get then from the same people who just last week told me they could get more money on unemployment.

You know the job before you come to the interview, I tell you a basic overview, what the company is and what we pay, and how many hours we offer. Do the math yourself don't wait till you get here ask me AGAIN how much the pay for the week (as if the number was gonna magically change overnight) and then say some bullshit like "well I can make more than that sitting on my ass at home collecting welfare, or Unemployment."

It's called a corporate ladder, you can't walk into a company and expect to be executive or management. This is my company, my hard work, my sweat, my long hours. I don't give that to anyone because they have a piece of paper that says they we taught how to do something. You can't come into my company and sit at the top from day one, I worked to get where I am, my managers worked to get their position, what would make you any better that you feel you do not need to work up that very ladder we used to get here? These people have to realize they are at the bottom of the bucket and the only way out is to climb up. So my best advice is take those house slippers off, close that computer, get off your ass and start climbing!

As far as welfare reform, DRUG TEST THEM. That will clean the welfare system right up!! I had to take a drug test and my employees also in order to get a new contract last week. We also had to have a 7 year Federal background check in order to pick this new client up. Most of your good paying jobs have got drug tests now days. But what about our welfare system? Is there a drug test needed to get that? NOPE!!!!

Solet me get this right, I have to be drug tested, and get an extensive background check done to pick up a client to get my employees more work, we then pay our taxes to help feed the welfare bucket, and those people need no test, no background check. Heck, they don't even need a shirt, shoes or bath to get welfare, they just sit and get?

**Now you see, there are 2 sides to every fence LOL**

Pleae note:I do understand a lot of people need welfare right now, and have to have it. I do understand we fall on hard times and most people on welfare deserve it, and treat that system with respect. However, there are just a many people who scam that very system set up to benefit those who REALLY need it!

[Thaklaar]

compristous, on 01 August 2010 - 12:17 PM, said:

Ok This will be my first disagreement here.

Good. Disagreement is fun. No one learns anything when we all agree with each other.

Quote

Firstly it's not they are making less Per Hour, as much as less per week. We pay well over minimum wage and need a lot of people for only 2 days a week as our accounts are large on Saturdays and Sundays right now. Meaning we only have available work on Saturdays and Sundays. (this means you can still get partial unemployment, IF you do the paperwork)

I had one person who made $280.00 dollars a week on unemployment. We pay $9.00 to $12.00 dollars an hour for work depending on experience, ability, and the other normal stuff that would adjust your pay. You also get a list of work to do, you start at 8:30 AM and have until 3 P.M.to get your tasks done. If you finish at say 1:00 or 2:00 or even earlier, you are done and you still get paid till 3. I can honestly say our pay scales are one of the best in the country. Now this person would have made $180.00 a week from us. Now if they just get another job making that for another 1-2 days a week, they would now be making more than the unemployment benefit and still only working 3 to 4 days a week. HUH, its a matter of will power, and work ethics and really wanting to do what you HAVE to do to put a roof over your head and food in your childrens tummy.

Now let me farther expand by saying yes benefit pay 30 bla bla percent, However is it my fault if you made 100,000 on wallstreet last year and your boss lost his ass thus in turn lost the money to fill your position, NOPE. Is it my fault you lost your ass in the mortgage market, NOPE. Is it my fault the Mortgage market crashed thus making the housing prices drop so that 7 percent commission check got smaller and smaller, NOPE. This is where I say WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD, where people do much more than push buttons and make phone calls to make a living. You work in the real world and you work hard. You don't sit on your ass collecting from our government and make excuses why it's the right thing to do, all the while complaining there is no work out there.

Bottom line being, your unemployment benefits are available to you only until readily available work is there for you. Meaning you can't say "I can make more on unemployment" even if you want to, because the terms of your unemployment do not allow you to pick and choose what work you do, It specifically states your benefits are available to you only until work is readily available to you. PERIOD, so it doesn't matter if you like the job or that pay or not, turning down work is forbidden, and you could lose all your benefit. I turn every single person in who tells me that stuff to our unemployment office. So, now they go from sitting on their ass collecting, to looking for 2 jobs anyways LMAO. And you can guess what kinda call I get then from the same people who just last week told me they could get more money on unemployment.

I'm not sure where the assumption comes from that the unemployment is being generated in the financial and real estate sectors. Now, stupidity in the financial and real estate sectors caused much of the problem, but the Bureau of Labor Statistics says that those sectors have lower unemployment than most (~8% vs. 10+%).

Look, I simply do not buy the premise that it is necessarily worse to remain on unemployment for a few extra months than to take a job far outside your previous pay, and likely outside what you have been trained and educated to do. I operate a power plant. I'm good at it, have been doing it for some time, and get paid well to do it. To say that if I get laid off, I need to take a job as a greeter at Wal-mart (Starbucks barrista, stock boy at Home Depot, what have you) for a fraction of my current wage just because it's the first job available is silly. I would be terrible at it, at least for a fair amount of time. My labor would not only not net me very much money (40 hrs a week at the $9-$12 you claim to pay would cover my mortgage, but not much else, and I live well below my means now), it would not net my employer or the economy in general very much value. At least not compared to what I could make and produce at a job where I can utilize my skills and knowledge. Now, I'm willing to do whatever needs to be done to feed my family. I'm used to working for a living. But I've spent my life paying taxes and contributing to society so that there is something of a buffer if something goes wrong outside of my control.

Quote

You know the job before you come to the interview, I tell you a basic overview, what the company is and what we pay, and how many hours we offer. Do the math yourself don't wait till you get here ask me AGAIN how much the pay for the week (as if the number was gonna magically change overnight) and then say some bullshit like "well I can make more than that sitting on my ass at home collecting welfare, or Unemployment."

It's called a corporate ladder, you can't walk into a company and expect to be executive or management. This is my company, my hard work, my sweat, my long hours. I don't give that to anyone because they have a piece of paper that says they we taught how to do something. You can't come into my company and sit at the top from day one, I worked to get where I am, my managers worked to get their position, what would make you any better that you feel you do not need to work up that very ladder we used to get here? These people have to realize they are at the bottom of the bucket and the only way out is to climb up. So my best advice is take those house slippers off, close that computer, get off your ass and start climbing!

First of all, how many people are we talking about, here? It's starting to sound to me like you had a couple of bad apples show up, and you came to the conclusion that the recession was caused by 10-12% of the workforce deciding they don't feel like working anymore and would rather sit at home and collect unemployment.

From a macro-economic standpoint, I have trouble seeing unemployment insurance as a bad thing. Do a few people abuse the system? Sure. A few people abuse any system. But the way I see it, without unemployment insurance, job seekers are more desperate. There will be a stronger bidding war for the available jobs resulting in rapidly lowering wages (where with insurance, they would still fall, but more slowly), further curtailing spending, driving the deflationary trend perhaps faster than the government would have the will to deal with. Once deflation gets going, it doesn't stop until it hits the bottom. The only thing that can counter-act this (apart from letting the economy crash completely and rebuild itself back, assuming the masses of hungry, pissed off people don't stage a revolution in the meantime) is government spending. Especially when it's given to people who then spend it in the real economy. You know, like unemployed workers, who then spend it at the grocery store to keep from starving.

Quote

As far as welfare reform, DRUG TEST THEM. That will clean the welfare system right up!! I had to take a drug test and my employees also in order to get a new contract last week. We also had to have a 7 year Federal background check in order to pick this new client up. Most of your good paying jobs have got drug tests now days. But what about our welfare system? Is there a drug test needed to get that? NOPE!!!!

Solet me get this right, I have to be drug tested, and get an extensive background check done to pick up a client to get my employees more work, we then pay our taxes to help feed the welfare bucket, and those people need no test, no background check. Heck, they don't even need a shirt, shoes or bath to get welfare, they just sit and get?

**Now you see, there are 2 sides to every fence LOL**

Pleae note:I do understand a lot of people need welfare right now, and have to have it. I do understand we fall on hard times and most people on welfare deserve it, and treat that system with respect. However, there are just a many people who scam that very system set up to benefit those who REALLY need it!

I won't get into it in this thread, but I'd like to see major reform of drug laws in this country.

Most people on welfare are A. single mothers, and B. off welfare in five years. A few people game the system, but the "welfare queens" Reagan bitched about back in the day were a myth.

[compristous]

Thaklaar, on 02 August 2010 - 12:15 PM, said:

Good. Disagreement is fun. No one learns anything when we all agree with each other.


I'm not sure where the assumption comes from that the unemployment is being generated in the financial and real estate sectors. Now, stupidity in the financial and real estate sectors caused much of the problem, but the Bureau of Labor Statistics says that those sectors have lower unemployment than most (~8% vs. 10+%).

Look, I simply do not buy the premise that it is necessarily worse to remain on unemployment for a few extra months than to take a job far outside your previous pay, and likely outside what you have been trained and educated to do. I operate a power plant. I'm good at it, have been doing it for some time, and get paid well to do it. To say that if I get laid off, I need to take a job as a greeter at Wal-mart (Starbucks barrista, stock boy at Home Depot, what have you) for a fraction of my current wage just because it's the first job available is silly. I would be terrible at it, at least for a fair amount of time. My labor would not only not net me very much money (40 hrs a week at the $9-$12 you claim to pay would cover my mortgage, but not much else, and I live well below my means now), it would not net my employer or the economy in general very much value. At least not compared to what I could make and produce at a job where I can utilize my skills and knowledge. Now, I'm willing to do whatever needs to be done to feed my family. I'm used to working for a living. But I've spent my life paying taxes and contributing to society so that there is something of a buffer if something goes wrong outside of my control.

(Not to be rude, but is it my fault if you got laid off, would it be my fault if you bought a house which was outside your means if a tragedy took place and you did lose your job? Bottom line is simple, we as people must prepare for our future, no matter good or bad, If I lost my business tomorrow, I can still live well within the means it would take to get by on 2 part time jobs. If I want something big I don't get it on credit I get it with cash, I begin to put the money in the bank in an interest gaining account, when there is enough money in there to get that big thing i get it. It's the same thing others do with credit, EXCEPT your making money on the interest instead of wasting it on visa, mastercard, or your bank. A house is no different, we cant always pay that with my system, However you can pick the size, the type of things that go in, for instance you add about 12,000 dollars when adding granite counters in a large house, another 12 to 15 thousand for tile floors, that fancy bathroom you wash your butt in can cost up to 12,000 extra. Live within your means of emergency is not the same as living within your means of income. Remember that grasshopper. Just because you can afford something today does not mean you will be able to afford it next month or the month after.)


First of all, how many people are we talking about, here? It's starting to sound to me like you had a couple of bad apples show up, and you came to the conclusion that the recession was caused by 10-12% of the workforce deciding they don't feel like working anymore and would rather sit at home and collect unemployment.

(Well we have had about 12 people say that to us who were previous cleaners making 2 dollars less an hour at their last jobs.To be honest the peoplewho have been saying that are actually not making as much on thier unemployment as they have led us to believe as we do reference checks and they put on the application how much they were making at the last job. To be honest the people who have jobs like what you have do not complain about the pay, we have iron workers, pipe-fitters,ex carpenters, all who work for us and are fine with the pay,and the job.

We set up interviews here a few month ago. I scheduled 15 interviews, 1 person came to the interview, the next week we scheduled 12 interviews 5 people came to the interview, one of them were legal to work in the USA, no one else had their right to work yet, just their entrance in. If I had not known the actual visa processes, they would have gotten one over on me, But my wife is a legal immigrant from another country so we knew the difference.

And showing up for work is no different. One morning we had 16 people scheduled for work, 9 showed up. Then, I still had to go behind them and do their job again up to our companies standards.

If there were a few bad apples down here I think the whole community got into that bushel somehow.)

From a macro-economic standpoint, I have trouble seeing unemployment insurance as a bad thing. Do a few people abuse the system? Sure. A few people abuse any system. But the way I see it, without unemployment insurance, job seekers are more desperate. There will be a stronger bidding war for the available jobs resulting in rapidly lowering wages (where with insurance, they would still fall, but more slowly), further curtailing spending, driving the deflationary trend perhaps faster than the government would have the will to deal with. Once deflation gets going, it doesn't stop until it hits the bottom. The only thing that can counter-act this (apart from letting the economy crash completely and rebuild itself back, assuming the masses of hungry, pissed off people don't stage a revolution in the meantime) is government spending. Especially when it's given to people who then spend it in the real economy. You know, like unemployed workers, who then spend it at the grocery store to keep from starving.

(Unemployment is supposed to be a good thing, but the people who really need it get denied, the people who really deserve it get the run around, and the people who know how to scam the system get theirs direct deposited into their account. Unemployment is good when your state i not misappropriating funds as our state got caught doing. And when you run your own business and you are the on me paying for it, let me hear your views on unemployment insurance then.Its easy to say things like "I have trouble seeing unemployment insurance as a bad thing" when you are not the one demanded to pay it huh?

Let me ask you this, if unemployment insurance was not an employers responsibility, would you pay for it on your own? What if it was demanded by the government you pay your own unemployment insurance putting you in the hot seat instead of your employer. Would you still say "I have trouble seeing unemployment insurance as a bad thing")

I won't get into it in this thread, but I'd like to see major reform of drug laws in this country.

Most people on welfare are A. single mothers, and B. off welfare in five years. A few people game the system, but the "welfare queens" Reagan bitched about back in the day were a myth.

(You are seriously joking right. What fantasy walgreens part of the country are you living in.The streets where you live in must be made of gold bricks, and the sidewalks made of marble right, pearl handrails, exotic trees and no disease anywhere right?.

"Most people on welfare are A. single mothers,................... (true)
and B. off welfare in five years. ........................................(or find a loophole and on again for who knows how long)
A few people game the system, ........................................(JUST A FEW???)
but the "welfare queens" Reagan bitched about back in the day were a myth. (<---------NO COMMENT....ROFLMFAO a myth)